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Crown SLAUGHTER House · Senior Poster (Pots off the break)

Winter League Prem Table 2011-12

DocJ · Veteran Poster (Pots the first red)

Crown SLAUGHTER House wrote:
Premier Section League Table Wednesday, November 23rd, 2011

Pos Team Pld W L For Agn Diff +/- Pts
1st West Oxford Democrats 6 4 2 63 27 36 63
2nd Crown House Club 'A' (Oxford) 7 5 2 54 51 3 54
3rd Oracle 'A' 7 4 3 54 51 3 54
4th Midget 'C' 6 4 2 45 45 0 45
Looks like the wheels have fallen off the Crown House A, Midget C and Oracle A.........
Demos (Defending Champions) look like they cant stop winning BIG!! its going to take a miracle for any other Prem team to catch them now.....

Hence why this is such a stupid scoring system!

They've played and won a game less, yet they're streaking ahead. With the same win/loss record they would be 3rd in a simple 3pts for a win scenario, or even bottom if their frame difference was a lot worse........but no, they're top! Can't we replace this with something better?

BURT · Regular Poster (Wins the toss)

Been a while -

I would not be so sure just yet we have five big games coming up that could go either way with the Boundary House playing well and both the Crown House teams having players more than capable.

Why should we not be rewarded for winning big everyone knows how the scoring system works hence every frame is important - surely what you propose here is for all games to be finished when one team gets to 8 with the size of some squads some players would not even get a frame or do we all continue to play uncompetitive frames?

Twitcher · Regular Poster (Wins the toss)

Also, don't know where u get the fact that we would be third from, based on the table above we would be second! The current scoring system allows teams with the most strength in depth to do better as you need 5 players consistently playing well as appossed to just 3 players playing well enough to secure the 8 frames necessary to win a match

DocJ · Veteran Poster (Pots the first red)

You're right, you'd be second, not third - misread the Oracle stats! That's not the point though.

Why would all games have to be over after 8 frames? Frame difference could still be important. Also, Pool is an individual as well as a team game - what about most wins for example? Not playing all the frames would make that pointless.

This format rewards teams who win 75 - 80% of their games but win big by allwong them to overtake the teams who may not get the big scores but consistently win 90% of their games. I know which team I think would deserve to win the league based on those facts........

BURT · Regular Poster (Wins the toss)

This format rewards teams who win the most frames over a season surely that means they are the best team over the season?

Frame difference could be important ---- but it is now!! Every frame you win adds to the total points scored so for those that are not going for most wins can add vital points to the teams total giving them something to play for. Lets be honest there will only be six or so going for most wins come the half way stage.

If you got your way there would be pointless games being played in the third leg every week.

Your facts have a slight flaw may I suggest you look at the scoring system this league adopts and then base them on that.

Twitcher · Regular Poster (Wins the toss)

We have won 67 out of the 90 frames we have played, a win record of just over 74%, whilst the closest teams to us have won 54 out of the 105 frames they have played, a win record of just over 51%, based on that I know who I'd rather be top of the league

the apprentice · Veteran Poster (Potting like a demon)

Even though sometimes it can seem a little unfair, I do like the current scoring system in the Abingdon League, simply because it is different to all the other leagues in Oxford.

But I can understand where Doc J is coming from.... Say Man City score 6 in every game they win in a season, but finish 1 win behind Man Utd, who grind out 1-0 victory every time they win. Do Man City have the right to feel annoyed they havn't won the title as they have showboated their skills in every match? No, becuase Man Utd have edged it on wins...

So 3 points for a win DOES make a lot more sense, but heck, this is the Abingdon & District League...let's keep it how it is!

DocJ · Veteran Poster (Pots the first red)

Does the team that scores the most goals win the Premiership? No. Does the team that scores the most points win the Rugby Superleague? No. Does the player who wins the most points or games win a match of tennis? No. Need I go on? It's not all about who wins the frames but who wins on the night. If your team won every game throughout the season but only finished second or third, you can't tell me you wouldn't feel aggrieved that a team with a worse record had won the title (although i'm sure you will wink ).

I really don't understand this whole playing pointless frames thing either. Do you only bother to try when you can win? I thought we played pool because we enjoy it.......not purely because we can win things?

-- Edited by DocJ on Thursday 24th of November 2011 01:27:15 PM

BURT · Regular Poster (Wins the toss)

What has this got to do with football, rugby or whatever other sport you want to bring into it this is pool!? Have a look at how the other leagues round Oxford/UK and take tips from them. I personally like the way every frame won adds to the teams total score and think it gives a good reflection on the teams consistency. You have to ask why these teams that are winning small all the time can't win big is it because they only have a couple of decent players that are carrying an average team?

How can I or anyone feel aggrieved we all know how the scoring system works at the start of every season if we didn't like it would of gone to the AGM! Come to mention that you were banging on about this last year, did you make it to the AGM to propose this change in the system?

You should be having a good time in the team you have chosen to play with week in week out otherwise you should get a transfer! But I don't see the point in playing unless you have a reason to help your team win the league,promotion or survival.

All the leagues round Ox have something different and that diversity works really well would be a shame to see the format change.

I would like to know if any team has ever won the league by winning less matches than the team in second, although a possibility I doubt it has happened before?

MING · Ultimate Poster (2-0 up in a best of 7)

Children, Children... The current points system was introduced a few seasons ago at, as has been said, the AGM.

Personally, I'd like to see 3pts for a win, plus a bonus point to be given to the winning team if they reach 11 frames and given to the losing team if they reach 6 frames

DocJ · Veteran Poster (Pots the first red)

BURT wrote:
What has this got to do with football, rugby or whatever other sport you want to bring into it this is pool!? I'm merely trying to illustrate that this system isn't prevalent accross sports in the UK. Have a look at how the other leagues round Oxford/UK and take tips from them. OK, lets have a look at the other Oxford leagues - none of them employ this scoring system. I personally like the way every frame won adds to the teams total score and think it gives a good reflection on the teams consistency. You have to ask why these teams that are winning small all the time can't win big is it because they only have a couple of decent players that are carrying an average team?

How can I or anyone feel aggrieved we all know how the scoring system works at the start of every season (fair point - but are you really happy with the most consistent team not winning?) if we didn't like it would of gone to the AGM! Come to mention that you were banging on about this last year, did you make it to the AGM to propose this change in the system? Yes, I was 'banging on' about this last year. Despite people showing interest in a different scoring system, nobody was willing to second my proposal, so there was no point going to the AGM.

You should be having a good time in the team you have chosen to play with week in week out otherwise you should get a transfer! But I don't see the point in playing unless you have a reason to help your team win the league,promotion or survival.

All the leagues round Ox have something different and that diversity works really well would be a shame to see the format change. Another fair point - but no, it wouldn't. It would be miles better

I would like to know if any team has ever won the league by winning less matches than the team in second, although a possibility I doubt it has happened before? I doubt it as well. This year could set a precedent though.

I agree with Kev that a straight 3 pts for a win wouldn't be the way forward. A bonus point system would still encourage teams to play up the end in most cases and avoid all those 'pointless' frames.

MING · Ultimate Poster (2-0 up in a best of 7)

I love the way people state that "They're all banging on about it" but then you can't get a seconder for your proposal from 30 other teams...

Fortunately or unfortunately, depending how you look at it, I've been around a long time a people continually moan and groan about all manner of crap regarding format/scoring systems.

The current format/scoring system was voted in at the request of the lower teams who wanted to get some points even though they lost every match and the 15 Single Frames so that all their players could get a frame or two.

These "pub players" make up the majority of the league, turn up for a game of pool, a beer and the crack knowing full well that they may get a tonking from the big boys, especially in the Summer League. Over the course of a season they may get a scalp, duly aided by the scalps own teammates giving him abuse along the way.

There are other pool leagues around where the overall quality of players is higher where those of you with delusions of grandure can show your skill to the masses...

Whilst I agree to an extent with DocJ's comparison of the scoring systems in other sports there is quite a big flaw in it. Most other sports don't have a definitive score so it wouldn't be possible to use goals scored etc as there's no limit to the amount of goals you could score.

It's interesting that in Matty's table above that Demo's "wins" have all been by a big margin; 12-3 at the Midget ?

They're not even the 5 or 6 best players in the league but they've been steady whilst other teams are half full of slap dash players who lose frames at an alarming rate through stupid shots and appalling shot selction/positioning