FORUM CLOSING ON 14th JANUARY

Milhouse · Ultimate Poster (2-0 up in a best of 7)

Issues from 21st May

Barney · Ultimate Poster (Breaks off in decider)

Isn't that just what John did? He specifically said any issues should be directed to him or Marcus or failing that to Shelley. As we all know raising issues on the forum gets nothing achieved except more confusion and more upset.

Beefy · Ultimate Poster (Breaks off in decider)

So what happened ?

Milhouse · Ultimate Poster (2-0 up in a best of 7)

Beefy wrote:

So what happened ?

I don't want to say what i have heard as it wouldn't be fair to the people involved or the commitee, thats why i asked the question for them to have their say first.

Barney - i think what went on has a lot of effect on the whole county team, so i think it is an issue that needs to be discussed.

The Chin · Senior Poster (Pots off the break)

What incident??

You make it sound like there was a fight or something.

If you are talking about Kev's decision, then if Kev wants it to be discussed on here, either he will post in this thread, or he will start a thread of his own.

I don't think any of us should speculate as to what went on.

Barney · Ultimate Poster (Breaks off in decider)

This is a typical Mill House thread.

If it is such an important issue why can't you elaborate? I for one have no idea what you're talking about, am only getting annoyed that we have another "issue" for people to moan about without any real tactile meat of an arguement on which to base their misgivings.

I would have thought a much better thread would involve something along the lines of "Congratulations to all the Oxfordshire teams playing on Sunday, all celebrating wins. An excellent start to the season which bodes well for the rest of the season both in team spirit and all players' understanding and application of the new Blackball rules".

Milhouse · Ultimate Poster (2-0 up in a best of 7)

The Chin wrote:

What incident?? You make it sound like there was a fight or something. If you are talking about Kev's decision, then if Kev wants it to be discussed on here, either he will post in this thread, or he will start a thread of his own. I don't think any of us should speculate as to what went on.

If you actually read my first posting, i was not speculating as to what went on, i am simply asking the question of what actually happened ! Try reading the post first before going on one, it helps.

Milhouse · Ultimate Poster (2-0 up in a best of 7)

Barney wrote:

This is a typical Mill House thread. If it is such an important issue why can't you elaborate?

As i said in my first posting - i have only heard rumours and as per the last thread about a rumour, i thought it best for the committee to have their say first.

I for one have no idea what you're talking about, am only getting annoyed that we have another "issue" for people to moan about without any real tactile meat of an arguement on which to base their misgivings.

I too am getting annoyed about the way things are being run at the moment. You are obviously someone who wants to just turn up and play - thats fine. But i am someone who has an opinion about things and if i think something is wrong, i will say something or ask a question. Sorry if you don't like that, but thats me.

I would have thought a much better thread would involve something along the lines of "Congratulations to all the Oxfordshire teams playing on Sunday, all celebrating wins. An excellent start to the season which bodes well for the rest of the season both in team spirit and all players' understanding and application of the new Blackball rules".

No questions about that, couldn't agree more

Barney · Ultimate Poster (Breaks off in decider)

Milhouse wrote:

As i said in my first posting - i have only heard rumours and as per the last thread about a rumour, i thought it best for the committee to have their say first.

Then why not email, PM, text, ring, send smoke signals to the Committee to inform them you have heard rumours? All you are doing is creating something out of nothing.

I too am getting annoyed about the way things are being run at the moment. You are obviously someone who wants to just turn up and play - thats fine

? Obviously. Your powers of deduction know no bounds.

But i am someone who has an opinion about things and if i think something is wrong, i will say something or ask a question. Sorry if you don't like that, but thats me.

What?! What do you think is wrong? And please be precise cos the suspension is just killing me. I just love opinions me.

No questions about that, couldn't agree more

Well I never.

Luckylewis · Even if you beat me I’m STILL THE BEST ;-)

Bring back

The Chin · Senior Poster (Pots off the break)

If everyone posted all the rumours they heared on here, it would be one very busy website!!

....anyway Millhouse, what is this I heared about you, a goat and whipped cream???!!

Barney · Ultimate Poster (Breaks off in decider)

LOL!

JFK · Senior Poster (Nominates their colour)

Milhouse wrote:

I too am getting annoyed about the way things are being run at the moment. You are obviously someone who wants to just turn up and play - thats fine. But i am someone who has an opinion about things and if i think something is wrong, i will say something or ask a question. Sorry if you don't like that, but thats me.

Well if you have a problem with the way teams are being run then Marcus and I are all ears. As I said on Sunday I'm happy to answer to anyone at anytime ... but do you choose to 'ask questions' face to face ... no ... as usual straight on the forum hiding behind your computer!! It's all very well having strong oppinions ... but do you know all the facts? Sunday was an excellent day for Oxfordshire 'on the pitch' but as usual that doesn't seem to be your main interest.

MING · Ultimate Poster (2-0 up in a best of 7)

Beefy wrote:

So what happened ?

Emperor MING will address the universe 8am tomorrow

Bow Down Wave

just finalising my "kiss and tell" deal with Max Clifford

Milhouse · Ultimate Poster (2-0 up in a best of 7)

JFK wrote:

Well if you have a problem with the way teams are being run then Marcus and I are all ears. As I said on Sunday I'm happy to answer to anyone at anytime ... but do you choose to 'ask questions' face to face ... no ... as usual straight on the forum hiding behind your computer!! It's all very well having strong oppinions ... but do you know all the facts? Sunday was an excellent day for Oxfordshire 'on the pitch' but as usual that doesn't seem to be your main interest.

No, i do not know all the facts, that is why i am asking the question to find out what actually happened before i have my say/views.

Milhouse · Ultimate Poster (2-0 up in a best of 7)

JFK wrote:

Sunday was an excellent day for Oxfordshire 'on the pitch' but as usual that doesn't seem to be your main interest.

What else is there to say about the day with regards to the match ? It was a great day, all teams won well done.

The main interest after that is with what happened before the match. That is what i would like to know.

Would it be easier for you if i asked you questions about what i heard and you answer them ?

MING · Ultimate Poster (2-0 up in a best of 7)

Milhouse wrote:

Would it be easier for you if i asked you questions about what i heard and you answer them ?

hulio · Veteran Poster (Pots the first red)

MING wrote:

Emperor MING will address the universe 8am tomorrow just finalising my "kiss and tell" deal with Max Clifford

Oh come on kev the suspence is killing us, We could all do with another decent topic to spread our veiws.

MING · Ultimate Poster (2-0 up in a best of 7)

hulio wrote:

Oh come on kev the suspence is killing us,

Sorry mate, no can do..........................................

Anyway, waiting to see what questions Milhouse asks before i go to print, Could give me another chapter....................................

the plot thickens

hulio · Veteran Poster (Pots the first red)

MING wrote:

hulio wrote: Oh come on kev the suspence is killing us, Sorry mate, no can do.......................................... Anyway, waiting to see what questions Milhouse asks before i go to print, Could give me another chapter.................................... the plot thickens

Millhouse over to you he has at least 15hrs to write another chapter you know he just loves to write so give the EMPEROR something to write about.:

MING · Ultimate Poster (2-0 up in a best of 7)

Blow me Beefy, what wonderful holiday’s you must have. Are they real or drug induced like Arnie in Total Recall? You were at home all the time, weren’t you?

Once again Milhouse gets his big spoon out, stirs the pot and yet again fails to dish anything up. And as for Tom “splinter” Williams, World Fence Sitting Champion, you really do need to get out more.

Right, now to the matter at hand. Beefy you’ve probably heard any number of variations on this so here’s the real story.

I refused to play in Sunday’s match due to the fact that Tom Weeks hadn’t been picked, though in truth, it wasn’t so much the fact that he hadn’t been picked that annoyed me but the reason I was given for his being overlooked – he wasn’t selected because he was a Wildcarded player.

Whilst at first glance that seems a reasonable excuse, it becomes pretty indefensible when a Wildcarded player had been selected for the B team. Additionally, having been given a post trial wildcard on the basis of “where failure to do so would be considered detrimental to the County", it seems baffling to me that he’s then overlooked. If he wasn’t good enough to play in the A team straight away, he surely wasn’t good enough to receive a Wildcard on the basis on which he was given one. Or was it more probable, that in light of the outcry from some quarters and the fact that we were playing Wiltshire, the Managers simply bottle to rubber stamp a decision that they themselves instigated. Would the team selection have been the same if the opposition was Berkshire?

I’m sure most people know my views on the direction in which the county should be heading competitively and I can say that most of the players share those views judging by the number of views expressed to me in the last few months on rumours on who was/was not playing and in which team.

With the addition of West Berkshire in our group it is imperative that we select our best 9 players, availability not withstanding, for the opening 2-3 fixtures, as the group and our participation in the finals, could well go down to frame difference.

Selecting your best players, regardless of how, why, where & when they got in the team also sends out other messages (1) to those players, probably in the B team, that should they attain that standard of ability and consistency, they will be selected for the A team (2) it shows players, perhaps those who’ve played before but have lost interest or new players of a good standard, that we are ambitious.

Success breeds success and nothing gets noticed more than a team of good players winning. Other good players want to join in, this not only pushes the top players to a higher level it pulls the lesser, inexperienced players up to a higher level. The perfect local example of this is Berkshire B. A few years ago most of those players were Joe Average, to even get close to getting in their A team you had to be better than the likes of Peter Lofts, Steve Avery etc, not as good as, but better. Only a couple of player made the jump but it raised the standard of their B team who have now won the last 2 B team championships.

And finally, when they discovered, a youth player called Dan Davy they didn’t piss around, they had him straight in the A’s, probably why they’ve won the County Championships and we haven’t even come close.

Think on………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

Barney · Ultimate Poster (Breaks off in decider)

MING wrote:

And as for Tom “splinter” Williams, World Fence Sitting Champion, you really do need to get out more. ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

I actually ended up with the silver medal. I couldn't hide my love of pizza when given the option of a takeaway.

Lol.

Milhouse · Ultimate Poster (2-0 up in a best of 7)

MING wrote:

Blow me Beefy, what wonderful holiday’s you must have. Are they real or drug induced like Arnie in Total Recall? You were at home all the time, weren’t you? Once again Milhouse gets his big spoon out, stirs the pot and yet again fails to dish anything up. And as for Tom “splinter” Williams, World Fence Sitting Champion, you really do need to get out more. Right, now to the matter at hand. Beefy you’ve probably heard any number of variations on this so here’s the real story. I refused to play in Sunday’s match due to the fact that Tom Weeks hadn’t been picked, though in truth, it wasn’t so much the fact that he hadn’t been picked that annoyed me but the reason I was given for his being overlooked – he wasn’t selected because he was a Wildcarded player. Whilst at first glance that seems a reasonable excuse, it becomes pretty indefensible when a Wildcarded player had been selected for the B team. Additionally, having been given a post trial wildcard on the basis of “where failure to do so would be considered detrimental to the County", it seems baffling to me that he’s then overlooked. If he wasn’t good enough to play in the A team straight away, he surely wasn’t good enough to receive a Wildcard on the basis on which he was given one. Or was it more probable, that in light of the outcry from some quarters and the fact that we were playing Wiltshire, the Managers simply bottle to rubber stamp a decision that they themselves instigated. Would the team selection have been the same if the opposition was Berkshire? I’m sure most people know my views on the direction in which the county should be heading competitively and I can say that most of the players share those views judging by the number of views expressed to me in the last few months on rumours on who was/was not playing and in which team. With the addition of West Berkshire in our group it is imperative that we select our best 9 players, availability not withstanding, for the opening 2-3 fixtures, as the group and our participation in the finals, could well go down to frame difference. Selecting your best players, regardless of how, why, where & when they got in the team also sends out other messages (1) to those players, probably in the B team, that should they attain that standard of ability and consistency, they will be selected for the A team (2) it shows players, perhaps those who’ve played before but have lost interest or new players of a good standard, that we are ambitious. Success breeds success and nothing gets noticed more than a team of good players winning. Other good players want to join in, this not only pushes the top players to a higher level it pulls the lesser, inexperienced players up to a higher level. The perfect local example of this is Berkshire B. A few years ago most of those players were Joe Average, to even get close to getting in their A team you had to be better than the likes of Peter Lofts, Steve Avery etc, not as good as, but better. Only a couple of player made the jump but it raised the standard of their B team who have now won the last 2 B team championships. And finally, when they discovered, a youth player called Dan Davy they didn’t piss around, they had him straight in the A’s, probably why they’ve won the County Championships and we haven’t even come close. Think on………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

Thanks for that Kevin, that is just what i had heard. Now is the all important question to the managers.....

If Tom was not picked in the origional squad for Sunday's game, when Kevin said he wasn't playing, why was Tom then put into the team, whereas a reserve who was picked for the game, was not put in ?

8ball · Senior Poster (Nominates their colour)

Ming wrote;

And finally, when they discovered, a youth player called Dan Davy they didn’t piss around, they had him straight in the A’s, probably why they’ve won the County Championships and we haven’t even come close.

Another reason could be that when the Manager of Berkshire selects his team his choice is accepted by the rest of the team.

If players cannot accept the managers team selection and then won`t play because they don`t agree with it is only ever going to cause problems, is this not detrimental to the County ?

An attitude of "I`m not playing if my freind dosn`t" can never be good for any team.

-- Edited by 8ball at 13:20, 2006-05-25

The Chin · Senior Poster (Pots off the break)

I think you might of misunderstood Kev's reason for not playing Pete.

The fact that he knows Tom had nothing to do with it.

It was more to the point of, why bother giving a player a Wild Card based on his ability, and then not put him in the team.

Especially after all the fuss that was made about it in the first place.

JFK · Senior Poster (Nominates their colour)

Well glad to see we are washing in public!! Since you neither spoke to me or Marcus prior to sunday or since Kevin, I guess we'll have to do this here!!

Milhouse wrote:If Tom was not picked in the origional squad for Sunday's game, when Kevin said he wasn't playing, why was Tom then put into the team, whereas a reserve who was picked for the game, was not put in ?

Again ... CHECK YOUR FACTS. When Kevin threw his toys out of the pan we only had 18 selected player. Rob Walker and Tom Weeks were there of their own choice. Kevin reduced us to 17 and 8 in the A's .. which of course was great for the team!! Now i'll explain Tom Weeks' inclusion but you'll just have to follow me ...

I want this county to succeed just as much as Kevin, but the diferance is I want to do it in as fairer way as possible and in a manor that encourages as many people to not only try out but an environment to improve once in, not over just a season but long term. It is a balancing act between fairness and trying to get the encouraging results that as Kevin says will also help. I believe we are doing that. Last year saw a few players raise their game and make it ... and are still trying to improve now. Kevin's trouble is he wants results now and consequences later .. his way or no way ... just like the Thursday league. People should bear in mind though LAST TIME KEVIN RAN THE A TEAM IT FOLDED HALF WAY THROUGH THE SEASON AND OCPF NEARLY COLLAPSED 5 YEARS AGO. It has taken years to repair his damage.

The silverware and titles people want are decided at nationals - not qualifying. There are now 10 fixtures not 8. To me the A and B's should be run with movement between them done on a mixture of a players results and ability. Trouble is ability is subjective and depends on the viewer, hence why in mho results count equally. Given the important thing is the sides picked for Nationals why is it so hard for people to except that the natural thing is for people to make their way through the teams over the course of a season and find their level in the hope that at the END of the qualifying we have the right teams. To me it is the fairest way.

The A team for sunday was initially going to be the same A team that succeeded at Selsey. However, losses of Pete M, LBJ (3 days before due to baby - congratualtions btw), Jez (2 hours before) and kevin (30 seconds before) changed that. Worked out well as we could easily bring in Malc, Nathan, Danny and Tom Weeks which i think are unarguably the strongest players available. Given between them they won 13 out 15 i think it was correct.

So to answer your point Milhouse ... what would you have done? There were no picked reserves available only supporters .. and I'm thankful they were there.

Now Kevin, promotion of youth talent. HYPOCRITE! As youth team manager you are in a position to really help. Now knowing the Wiltshire youth match might not happen (which you did) you decide to send them letters that arrive friday telling them training on saturday for match sunday. You then cancel saturday and make practise sunday. On what ... the floor? It's a county match .. there are no tables. Well some of your players turned up and you did nothing - they just stood round grumbling. Sad to say but i think we have a very dissallusioned youth team - and what kind of role model do they have. Ignore your phone, turn up late, announce you disagree with managers, refuse to play. Well lets hope they learn!!

Chin: why bother giving a player a Wild Card based on his ability, and then not put him in the team.

Because that then gets him in the squad and a chance to get a quality player in the team for nationals. He was last in so was going to get his chance last but with Tom's ability that would still have left him odds to make the A's for nationals. As it happens he now got his chance by coming to support and personally am really glad. Shame it's at the cost of one Oxfords most reliable players but thats life. It's the team at the end of the season that counts, and part of the skill is getting the one you want in the fairest most open manor.

At the AGM there was an agreement between Marcus and Kevin, that Marcus would only take the job if Kevin agreed to leave team matters to us. It took a long time to decide team selection and only 30 seconds for you to get involved Kevin. Marcus has now resigned in principal. I can't say I blame him. This is a huge loss as Marcus has not only been instrumental in the rebuilding of this county but is also one of it's staunchest supporters. Marcus has worked hard during the hard times and good ... it is fair to say you have only recently become interested again in your role thanks to recent uplift in success ... ironically enough the success of Marcus and Ash clearing up your previous mess!! I really don't think he should have been the one to resign!

You cannot pick a county side purely on the players to see or 'think' are good. You can't 'see' every player. You pushed Tom's wildcard and we agreed after a good argument. There is a certainly blinckered feeling of a mates only 'club' entering your arguments.

-- Edited by JFK at 12:58, 2006-05-25

MING · Ultimate Poster (2-0 up in a best of 7)

8ball wrote:

If players cannot accept the managers team selection and then won`t played because he dosn`t agree with it is only ever going to cause problems, is this not detrimental to the County ? An attitude of "I`m not playing if my freind dosn`t" can never be good for any team.

Couldn't agree more with you 8 Ball, however if you read my reason for not playing it wasn't beacause Tom wasn't playing but the reason given for him not playing, which was obviously a load of bollocks. And then why didn't he play for the B's. Yes they won, but it was close. If you believe that a Wildcarded player has to start down the pecking order, then your're saying that Tom's, at least, the 26th best player in the County squad.

I've made no secret of the fact, and both managers are aware of this, that i'm not interested giving up a working Sunday(£200) to play County, which i did last week and playing, unless we as a county are interested in winning this thing. Therefore not selecting your best players to start the season does not to me, show that ambition.

Let me put this senario to you. Swap me and Tom round. I'm not selected for the opening match, we win 21-6. Second match the teams stays the same due to the excellent win, fair enough. Third match i play. Forth match im unavailable due to work. Fifth and Sixth match, this year i'm away in Australia so i'm not here. Back for match 7 but due to another good win over a weak Wiltshire, ala Sunday, not selected. Play 8, 9 and 10. No problem there except if you read the EBPF rules you'll find a rule that says that a player must play 50% or more games in the team that he/she represents at the National Finals. As a rule, his has never really been inforced, but what if it was, I, statistically your best player, wouldn't be able to play, though i probably would for the B's...............work that one out.

And finally, i didn't take the decision not to play lightly and it certainly wasn't my intention to weaken the side. My decision was to force them to select Tom, as at the time i didn't know there was a reserve there and it could've back fired, though it seem's common sense prevailed in the end, though that does lead to Milhouse's question above.

JFK · Senior Poster (Nominates their colour)

Kevin said: "I refused to play in Sunday’s match due to the fact that Tom Weeks hadn’t been picked, though in truth, it wasn’t so much the fact that he hadn’t been picked that annoyed me but the reason I was given for his being overlooked – he wasn’t selected because he was a Wildcarded player."

Out of interest ... who told you that? I might be worng but i didn't think you'd spoken to Marcus about it and you certainly didn't speak to me!

MING · Ultimate Poster (2-0 up in a best of 7)

JFK wrote:

Now knowing the Wiltshire youth match might not happen (which you did) you decide to send them letters that arrive friday telling them training on saturday for match sunday.

I think you need to check your facts John, I wasn't aware that Wiltshire didn't have a Youth team until Friday when Marcus rang me. On the post, i sent the letters on Monday as i mostly always do because if i send them earlier, they sometimes forget. Plus i needed to confim with Jimmy about having tables.

JFK wrote:
You then cancel saturday and make practise sunday.

You obviously weren't in colours on saturday, nothing was cancelled

JFK wrote:
Well some of your players turned up and you did nothing - they just stood round grumbling. Sad to say but i think we have a very dissallusioned youth team - and what kind of role model do they have.

Three players turned up John, 1 Sean who as Marcus's stepson new there wasn't a match and was away on Saturday, 2 Chris Smith, who played on the "cancelled" practice on Saturday and 3 Adam Poole, who came with Marcus and Sean. Now if he followed the instuctions contained in the letter he would have known about the match. As you must have met the dissallusioned youth team you can tell me what their complaints/problems are........................There only dissallusionment is on the lack of games they play. And finally, i've never put myself forward as any kind of role model, far from it. If there's anyone else willing to do it and run the Youth Pool Series etc, then they're welcome. Is that you putting yourself forward for the job John?

MING · Ultimate Poster (2-0 up in a best of 7)

JFK wrote:

Kevin said: "I refused to play in Sunday’s match due to the fact that Tom Weeks hadn’t been picked, though in truth, it wasn’t so much the fact that he hadn’t been picked that annoyed me but the reason I was given for his being overlooked – he wasn’t selected because he was a Wildcarded player." Out of interest ... who told you that? I might be worng but i didn't think you'd spoken to Marcus about it and you certainly didn't speak to me!

Marcus