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Post Info TOPIC: RULES DISPUTE


Occasional Poster (Racking up the balls)

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RULES DISPUTE
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See if anyone can help me on this one.


I was playing in a league match the other night and chriss chapman hit a shot (world 8 ball rules) and he was reds but he knocked a yellow after contacting the red and the yellow went towards the corner pocket and it hovered a few seconds then fell in, so the ref got the yellow back out and put it back in the law of the pocket and Chriss carried on, Surely this is a foul? i asked but christine said it is a new rule in world rules, she is very good with the rules as is chris chapman so i totally belive this is correct but just thought ide put it out on the airways for someone to clarify. Christine said that if the ball stops moving then falls in, it is replaced, but i would have thought that the human eye could not see if that ball is still moving or not? or is it not until the players hand touches the table he is still in play or a time limit? Anyway anyone got any ideas on this on?



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8 ball world rules ??? 


BAPTO or Blackball and i may be able to help. Have you tried an EPA site to clarify ?



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Occasional Poster (Racking up the balls)

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not bapto and not blackball, just standard world rules, have checked on epa site yet no.

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This is interesting as in Black Ball rules once play has stopped the ball is replaced the grey area comes in what is calssed as "when the balls have stopped".


Sounds to me like 8 Ball have pinched a black ball rule to me


I am sure Queenie being an EPA ref will be able to clear this one up.



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Occasional Poster (Racking up the balls)

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Hmm just found this but doesn't really say anything about the time you can wait for a ball to stop moving, how do you know if it has stopped moving?


 






V. Balls Falling Without Being Hit



  1. Any ball that falls into a pocket at any time, without being struck, shall be replaced by the Referee to its original position, no penalty, player in control continues with the visit.
    If any other balls are moved in these circumstances they shall also be replaced as near as possible to their original positions and the player in control continues with that visit.



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I would of said the same thing, glad you found the answer yourself.

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How much time has passed though as it seems that the ball hadn't stopped moving. If it was only a couple of seconds, its unlikely that the ball had completely come to rest.

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Wooldridgewinner wrote:


the time you can wait for a ball to stop moving, how do you know if it has stopped moving?  


Quite agree with Milhouse here. Alot will depend on the amount of time the ball took to drop into the pocket. As a rule, i would use 3-5 seconds to accept that the ball had come to rest.


i don't think the rule was written for this exact situation as the ball was actually played. The main reason for the rule was other stationary balls, not directly affected by the shot, that drop in due to movement of the table etc that causes them to drop in.


Also, what about pubs that charge £1 per game, who's gonna pay another £1 to get a ball out that drops in?



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MING wrote:


 Also, what about pubs that charge £1 per game, who's gonna pay another £1 to get a ball out that drops in?


 


Simple solution to this one have spare set of balls behind the bar and use some of them to accomodate this rule. Only problem will be if it happens a few times and all the balls are then potted.



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Beefy wrote:


MING wrote:  Also, what about pubs that charge £1 per game, who's gonna pay another £1 to get a ball out that drops in?   Simple solution to this one have spare set of balls behind the bar and use some of them to accomodate this rule. Only problem will be if it happens a few times and all the balls are then potted.

And then the balls get stuck in the table and thats the end of the match !!!!

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Occasional Poster (Racking up the balls)

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Funny enough it happened to me on monday lol, i was playing my match and i was yellows and my opponent played his red to cover my pocket where most of my yellows were and his red stopped over the pocket and then about 1 or 2 seconds after it had stopped(maybe still moving tho lol) but anyway it dropped in, so the ref promptly got it out of the table and put it back, i was fine with it but i was thinking this is stupid, because my opponent hit the red a tiny bit hard and in the end it fell in, so really he should carry on his turn but instead he was given a life line because it put him in a strong position as you all know with covering a pocket in world rules, anyway thankfully i went on to win but was still wondering about how long the ref should have waited for that ball to drop, SURELY SOMEONE KNOWS THE RULE HERE , you cant just  have a random rule that you decide, either you wait or you leave it to come to a stop and then replace it straight away or ???? lol

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Regular Poster (Wins the toss)

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if the ball has been stationary for 5 seconds or longer it is replaced, if it is under 5 seconds the ball remains potted and the player must continue his/her visit, unles of course the ball potted resulted in a foul .....................i think

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This is taken from the referees guidelines on the EPA site:-

16. Balls falling without being hit (rule V)

The instant that the Referee has determined that a shot is over, time will be started. Any subsequent ball falling, no matter how close to time starting, will be treated as falling without being hit, and it shall be replaced where it was prior to falling.

If a ball falls in without being hit timing shall be restarted when the ball(s) have been replaced.

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PoolQueen wrote:


This is taken from the referees guidelines on the EPA site:- 16. Balls falling without being hit (rule V) The instant that the Referee has determined that a shot is over, time will be started. Any subsequent ball falling, no matter how close to time starting, will be treated as falling without being hit, and it shall be replaced where it was prior to falling. If a ball falls in without being hit timing shall be restarted when the ball(s) have been replaced.


But this is the problem with World Rules. They write stupid rules without a definative answer. These sort of rules are ok when you have top players with proper un-biased referees and timing in force.


Imagine the Oracle V Tandem match having this problem, there'd be no end of arguements over wether the ball had stopped or not lol



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Occasional Poster (Racking up the balls)

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Sir ramrod, where did you find out that 5 second rule? How does the ref tell the opposing player that the player (that hit the last ball before the ball in question fell in) had finished his go so the 5 second rule comes in.

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MING wrote:


Imagine the Oracle V Tandem match having this problem, there'd be no end of arguements over wether the ball had stopped or not lol


There are always enough arguments without bring the greyness of the rules into it !




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Wooldridgewinner wrote:


Sir ramrod, where did you find out that 5 second rule? .

i cant remember, but, im sure i heard it somewhere!  it would make sense to me to have a set amount of time after the balls become stationary before the visit of the players changes.

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sir_ramrod wrote:


Wooldridgewinner wrote: Sir ramrod, where did you find out that 5 second rule? . i cant remember, but, im sure i heard it somewhere!  it would make sense to me to have a set amount of time after the balls become stationary before the visit of the players changes.

I don't know about World Rules, but i know there is the 5 second rule in the new Blackball rules, maybe you are getting confused Jim ?

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Milhouse wrote:


 maybe you are getting confused Jim ?

 Caveman 







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sir_ramrod wrote:


 Caveman 


 No wonder you can't beat me. LOOK at the size of that tip







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MING wrote:


     No wonder you can't beat me. LOOK at the size of that tip

 I cant beat you!??  May i point out that your 3-2 victory over me the other week was your 1st win since the 2004 singles final! Thumbs Down 







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sir_ramrod wrote:


MING wrote:      No wonder you can't beat me. LOOK at the size of that tip  I cant beat you!??  May i point out that your 3-2 victory over me the other week was your 1st win since the 2004 singles final!  


 


Yeah bet it was the first time you played each other in a competitive situation as well !



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Beefy wrote:


    Yeah bet it was the first time you played each other in a competitive situation as well !


keep track of all my matches friendly/competitive do you? No


Its not a mandatory requirement that you have to reply to every post thats ever been submitted you know!!! No  Soapbox 







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sir_ramrod wrote:


 keep track of all my matches friendly/competitive do you? 

No but I think I might know someone has been......... besides you asked for this comment posting what you did.....

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Beefy wrote:


 No but I think I might know someone has been......... besides you asked for this comment posting what you did.....


 If you look back at my post beefy you might see that some of us say things as a bit of banter!!!!


and as for what i did......As i explained to Milhouse; I/we have nothing against anyone in the Tandem team its just unfortunate because I didnt want to upset anyone but things such as transfers can never be made without upsetting people and please dont think that you were the only ones who had their toes trod on.


Im gutted to be leaving behind some good friends (even if they are a little over-opinionated) and i think that a lot of people would have a lot more respect for both of you if they had spent some of the time that myself and jamey have spent with you because you're both great guys ('guys' im talkin like a yank) i just dont think you do yourselves any favours with you're oversized **** stirring spoons


So please dont start with you're sarky digs at me as i thought you had a little more respect for me than that, ive never been anything but nice and would like to continue to be so.........besides........im a lot better at it! Thumbs Up 







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Occasional Poster (Racking up the balls)

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Well said ramrod and yeh i agree being nice is easier and much more fun, long live niceness lol.

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sir_ramrod wrote:


I/we have nothing against anyone in the Tandem team its just unfortunate because I didnt want to upset anyone but things such as transfers can never be made without upsetting people and please dont think that you were the only ones who had their toes trod on. Im gutted to be leaving behind some good friends (even if they are a little over-opinionated) and i think that a lot of people would have a lot more respect for both of you if they had spent some of the time that myself and jamey have spent with you because you're both great guys ('guys' im talkin like a yank) i just dont think you do yourselves any favours with you're oversized **** stirring spoons 


 


Cheers mate but you can't have a forum without some stirring spoons its just a bit of harmless fun.


Its a shame you guys have taken this course as it would have been interesting to see how we faired as a team in the Prem next year but oh well...........after not dropping a single point last year.



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